ZEIT: Apparently, the US justice system is still functioning.

Schwartz: That is indeed one of the most important findings. Everyone depends on it, the whole world depends on the United States being a state governed by the rule of law. That is something we are proud of, a central part of our self-image: that the law prevails, that no one is above the law. We have no king and no dictator. If someone ignores clear rules, that must be corrected.

ZEIT: Your company primarily imports wine from Europe to the USA. How significantly were you affected by the tariffs?

Schwartz: Between May and December, we paid approximately $150,000 in tariffs. This year, the total would have been even higher. Where is a small company like ours supposed to get that kind of money? I have to pay the tariffs immediately, as soon as the wine arrives in the US, even before I’ve sold a single bottle. We have about 20 employees. So we reduced our inventory by 20 to 25 percent. We cut ties with suppliers we’d worked with for years. We deliberately downsized to remain liquid. It was an existential threat. Absolutely.

TIME: Did you pass the costs on to the customers?

Schwartz: Partly, but not entirely. We not only had the tariffs, but also a weak dollar. For European wines, that meant roughly 30 percent higher costs overall. We had to pay 15 percent of that to the government. But our net margin is between five and ten percent. So the burden from the tariffs alone exceeded our profits. Of course, prices had to rise—seven or eight percent, perhaps. But the market is weak. People are drinking less alcohol. The small wine shops I sell to told me it was the worst January and February ever. And at the same time, you hear from Washington that the economy is strong. Maybe for big tech companies, maybe for Nvidia. But I’m not in the AI ​​business. I sell wine.

“We are like the canary in the coal mine”

ZEIT: You mean the big downturn might still be coming?

Schwartz: We’re like the canary in the coal mine. You know that saying in Germany? Miners used to take a canary down the mine because they warn of gases that humans can’t smell. The birds stop chirping. Our industry, the liquor trade, is right at the front of the mine; we were the first to feel the effects of the tariffs. If this continues, the entire US economy will suffer much more than it has so far.

ZEIT: How did your European suppliers react?

Schwartz: They couldn’t do anything. These are small winegrowers, cooperatives, family businesses. Not luxury corporations with huge margins. Nobody could just swallow 15 percent. One of the biggest lies is the claim that foreign producers pay the tariffs. That’s not true. Americans pay them. I paid them. My colleagues paid them. When the government proudly announces how much money it has collected, it means: It took it out of the pockets of small businesses.

ZEIT: How did it come about that you joined the lawsuit against the government and ultimately even led it?

Schwartz: By chance. A family member mentioned at lunch that his former professor, Ilya Somin, was working on a lawsuit against the tariffs. I just wanted to tell him how dire the situation was in our industry. A few days later, I was asked if I wanted to join—as the lead plaintiff. That’s when I realized the situation was serious. Many advised me against it. But I felt someone had to stand up for themselves. We were all disappointed in the big companies in the country that hadn’t done anything about it. Where were the tech billionaires? Where was Jeff Bezos? Where was Mark Zuckerberg? They caved to Trump. No one was openly opposing the tariffs or the president. I thought: If they won’t, then I will.

Schwartz: Of course. We’re a highly regulated industry. They could have made things difficult for us. I thought to myself: In the worst-case scenario, we’d have to close the business. I was truly prepared to lose everything. But then my daughter and I would have had to start a new company. I’ve been doing this for almost 40 years. But it was too important to remain silent. There were nasty emails, threats. Very unpleasant things. But there was no official action. That would have been very unwise politically, too.

ZEIT: Do you expect a refund of the customs duties you paid?

Schwartz: Everyone needs to get their money back. I want mine back, too. Every cent. The tariffs were levied illegally. Technically, it’s straightforward. Every import has an electronic code. The tariffs were automatically debited from our account. They can be refunded just the same. It’s not a bureaucratic impossibility. Whether and how it will be implemented politically remains to be seen. But that’s a decision for Congress, not the president.

ZEIT: What is the most important insight you have gained from this process?

Schwartz: A great many people were waiting for someone to speak out. I received thousands of messages – from Democrats, Republicans, Independents, from Europeans. It was never just about wine. It was about the principle that power must be limited.

ZEIT: Mr. Schwartz, there’s one thing we haven’t talked about: What is your favorite wine?

Schwartz: It’s like with your own children. You can’t love just one. But the southern Rhône Valley is close to my heart. That’s where it all began. I went to the South of France in 1987, near Avignon, to learn everything about wine. Then I came back to New York and wondered: Is my palate good enough? Can people trust my decisions? Apparently, they could.